At 08:59 AM 2/11/2005, Jonathan Cheyer wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I'd tend to agree with Phil that we should go with the two-step approach.
>It should be easier to start with a clone of Doug's system which would
>allow us to start using NLS and then we can learn how to build it from a
>clean TOPS20 as we learn the system.
>
>As for ensuring that we don't copy Doug's personal files, I was also
>wondering about that. At Doug's party, I spoke with Raylene about this,
>and she replied that all of his personal data was located within a single
>account and she would be easily able to help us determine where that was
>located. We should definitely leverage her familiarity of NLS in this
>effort. Since Raylene knows Doug so well, she may also be able to help in
>asking him to allow us to make a copy of NLS (minus personal files).
>
>Ken, I understand that the easiest way to copy the whole system is
>just to copy the disk images themselves, but of course that would also
>copy all Doug's personal files. Is there an easy way to copy specific sets
>of files off the TOPS20 file system? Is there a TOPS20 command that does
>something similar to a Linux find/tar combo piping the resulting output
>over a network connection to an external (i.e. Linux) file system? (01)
If Raylene is willing to be involved and Doug trusts her, then she's
clearly the right one to
do this. My recommendation is to propose to Doug that he let us clone his
system disk
and hand to someone he trusts like Raylene or Peter. He can instruct one
of them on
which directories or accounts he wants deleted. That person personally
oversees adding
the disk to the new system and removes what Doug wants removed. We can
then clone
that disk again for archival purposes, and then start using the system.
That way we can
create another system without going through this again, and we have our
first artifact to
preserve. (02)
>Phil, as I mentioned at the party, my main concern is that we solve the
>licensing issues early on on this project. I'm confident that with Ken's
>and Raylene's help, we can solve any technical problems that come up. But
>licensing issues are going to be much harder.
>
>Our primary need is to get Boeing (through Tymshare/McDonnell-Douglas) to
>agree to release NLS/Augment to public domain. I think the best way to do
>that is for the CHM to appeal to Boeing that it should be released for
>historical, educational, and inspirational purposes. Because I expect it
>may take many months for us to actually get to the point of receiving a
>written statement from Boeing, we should start this process as soon as
>possible. I can't overstate the importance of having NLS/Augment released
>into the public domain. We can work on the technical aspects in parallel,
>but if we aren't able to obtain the statement of release from Boeing, this
>project will not be able to continue.
>
>Rather than just approaching Boeing Legal directly, who are likely to turn
>down our request, I think speaking with someone much higher up at Boeing
>is the way to go. When I spoke with John Toole, he said he would be able
>to help out in this area. I believe he knows someone at Boeing, and I
>think if we can get a favor from them then they can help push Boeing Legal
>to write up a public domain release document of some kind. If they can't
>find the code anywhere at Boeing, it would be fine if they would just
>agree in writing to release their ownership of whichever version of the
>NLS/Augment system code that we find on Doug's computer. (03)
I agree with the priority of clarifying the legal status and getting Boeing
to agree to as
few restrictions as we can get. Working through people like John at
CHM sounds like
the right approach to me, too. We should ask John to poke around and find
out whether
someone associated with the museum has a close personal relationship with a
very
senior Boeing executive, and ask that person to make the initial
call. Those kind of
personal contacts are golden. Until we can clarify the status, we'll have
to treat the
NLS/Augment software as what's called a "dark archive", with access limited
only to
those working on the preservation project. There are several other pieces
of software
with that status at the museum, including the source code to MacPaint. (04)
>In terms of hardware, I was able to get TOPS20 running (thanks to Ken's
>emulator) on a cheap $700 Linux box without any problems. Any standard
>desktop machine will be more than sufficient for our working team to get
>NLS running. We can discuss later in the project as to what kind of
>hardware would be best suited for the NLS that would be running at the CHM. (05)
I'm particularly interested in what it would take way down stream to enable
multiple
people to access the NLS/Augment system over the web as a "cyber exhibit".
That's
a ways off, but it's interesting to start thinking it through. (06)
>Jonathan
>
>
>Philip Gust wrote:
>>Ken,
>>I'm copying Peter and Jonathan on this because they're going to be
>>involved in this effort as well.
>>Linux would be fine at this point. What would be an "ideal" machine
>>for a single user setup?
>>My preference would be a 2-step approach. First, clone an existing
>>system after expunging any directories that Doug does not want to
>>get out there. That will get us something allow us to start learning
>>the system from the internal documentation and also learn how to
>>rebuild NLS/Augment (perhaps with some advice from Raylene Pak,
>>who we met at Doug's party and says that she does it regularly).
>>We can worry about learning how to install NLS/Augment on a virgin
>>TOPS-20 system over time and communicate that as part of the pilot
>>project. Perhaps Raylene knows something about that, too. You
>>could hardly say anything scarier than "become the world's foremost
>>expert" at doing this.
>>So other than getting a Linux machine from the CHM, what are the
>>set of steps and who do we need to work with to create a sanitized
>>clone? How to we go about making a cloned disk? Do we need
>>identical hardware to Doug's to make that work? I presume the first
>>step is to talk with Doug to get his permission and discuss the best
>>way to clean personal files off the cloned machine. Could you help
>>out with the cloning and weeding process over the next couple of
>>weeks if we can get the hardware lined up? We'd also want to learn
>>from you how to clone it ourselves in case we need to do that again.
>>I worked on a TOPS-10 system running on a PDP-10 for five years
>>back in the mid-1970s, but expect that I'm pretty rusty. Our favorite
>>"game" was TICO roulette: you type in a random word and see what
>>it does to your favorite file... Unlike Scrabble, you got higher points
>>for letters corresponding to more dangerous commands. Life was
>>simpler back then...
>>
>>At 07:12 PM 2/10/2005, you wrote:
>>
>>> > Hi, Ken.
>>> >
>>> > It was great to finally meet you at Doug's birthday party at SRI.
>>> > Peter Yim, Jonathan Chayer and I are restarting the NLS/Augment
>>> > preservation test-bed project. We plan to work primarily through
>>> > emails, wikis, and the like, and want to find out whether you'd still
>>> > have an interest in participating at some level. I realize that you're
>>> > very busy, but if it's something you'd have fun contributing to, we'd
>>> > love to have you.
>>> >
>>> > One of the early milestones is to get a version of NLS/Augment
>>> > running on machines at the museum. I'd also like to have copies
>>> > available for people working on the committee. Could you please
>>> > let me know whether you'd be willing to allow us to use your
>>> > emulator for the project, and instruct us on how to use it to set
>>> > up an Augment system? I'd like to get this first milestone done
>>>
>>>The emulator is trivial, assuming you have a hardware platform that
>>>runs Linux or FreeBSD. What were you thinking of using? The faster
>>>the better.
>>>
>>>The hard part is getting a clean TOPS-20 system up that runs Augment.
>>>I can clone Doug's current system (or revive an old one) in just the
>>>time it takes to copy the disk images. However, those images contain
>>>lots of possibly personal files; they need to be cleaned out, and I'm
>>>not entirely sure which accounts are necessary for AUGMENT to remain
>>>running. That will take some time and understanding.
>>>
>>>Another and philosophically superior method would be to install
>>>AUGMENT on a virgin TOPS-20 system. Although I know how to install
>>>TOPS-20, I've never installed AUGMENT. You'd have to find someone who
>>>knows how it was done; I'm not sure whether the Bootstrap people
>>>remember how to do this, but I'm sure *someone* somewhere knows.
>>>
>>>Or you can read the documentation, figure it out, and become the
>>>world's foremost expert...
>>>
>>>--Ken
>>
>>Philip Gust
>>Nouveau Systems, Inc.
>>phone: +1 650 961-7992
>>fax: +1 508 526-8142
>>
>>mailto: gust@NouveauSystems.com
>
>
>Philip Gust
>Nouveau Systems, Inc.
>
>phone: +1 650 961-7992
>fax: +1 508 526-8142
>
>
>mailto: gust@NouveauSystems.com (07)
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